From dn36@columbia.edu Sat Apr 12 01:10:16 1997
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 03:00:54 -0700
From: David Novick <dn36@columbia.edu>
To: Boris.Feldblyum@f302.n109.z1.jewishgen.org, nateg@usa.net
Cc: dn36@columbia.edu, drnovell@emi.net, nogrodes@fdusvr1.fdu.edu
Subject: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki
I have a question regarding Boris Feldblyum's and Nate Gross's
responses to Marc Novell (at drnovell@emi.net) about the name
Novogrodsky. This is my original family name. I also believe it was
from Novogrudok. My name was pronounced Novogrudsky and my father lived
not far from this town. I have detailed Novogrodsky Web pages. I got
carred away with these pages. My main page is located at
"http://128.59.202.178/www/novogrud.htm". My question is that people
with this name pronounce it Novogrudsky or Novogrodsky. I know with
Russian to Polish to English the third o in the name might get chaned
and confused as in Polish an O with an accent is pronounce as a u in
English. When this Polish spelling is seen in English is can be
pronounced as a O. The problem is that 3 out of 5 people who responded
to my Novogrudsky home pages insist that their name was always
pronounced Novogrodsky. The other two say it was pronounced Novogrudsky
like mine. One Nowogrodzki from Poland himself told me that all these
versions are the same name pronounced correct as Novogrudsky. I am
confused. I see that their were a few other towns named Nowogrod,
Novgorod, Novogrudok, Novogorod, etc. These towns are located in
Poland, Russia, Belarus, and the Ukraine. At first I though that all
Novogrodskys had to originate from Poland and Belarus. My guess was
that if a person's name was from Russia or the Ukraine their names would
be pronounced Novogorodsky. I knew a few people from Russia and the
Ukraine with Gorod in their last names. None of these people had grud
or grod in their names. Please explain to me if I am correct and if
there is a way to differentiate between all the Novogrodsky names. I
will include the original 3 emails at the bottom of this letter to
refresh everyones memories. Also feel free to look at my Novogrudsky
home pages. I update them often.
Thanks for your replys,
Sincerly,
David Novick
dn36@columbia.edu
Work Phone (212) 678-4109
Home Phone (718) 336-5866
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From nk.rank@usa.net Sat Apr 12 01:10:48 1997
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 13:38:36 -0400
From: N <nk.rank@usa.net>
To: dn36@columbia.edu
Subject: Re: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki
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Hi David
I did not include your original message - it was a bit long. As to your
question: I speak both Russian and Polish. Both languages are Slavic and
some words are pronounced almost the same, with small differences. The
Russian Novgorod means, in old Slavic, a new town. In Polish Novogrudek
means also a new town. There are a number of towns in Poland, Belorus,
Ukraine and Russia with these names (the Belorussian and Ukrainian
pronunciations are similar to the Russian). The largest cities named
Novgorod are in Russia - THE largest - Nizhni Novgorod (used to be
Gorki) is about 300 miles east of Moscow. So your family may be from any
one of these places - many of those towns were in the pale of settlement
- which encompassed parts of Poland, Belorus and the Ukraine. Nixhni
Novgorod is NOT in the boundries of the pale, so if your family origins
are in Russia, you are likely to find your roots there.
Regards
N.
From dn36@columbia.edu Sat Apr 12 01:14:35 1997
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 00:35:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Novick <dn36@columbia.edu>
To: N <nk.rank@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki
Nate, Hi and thanks for your prompt response. I know my father was living
very close to Novogrudek in Poland which is now Belorus. My question is
about all the other novogrodskys I am coming across. If a person's name
has grod or grud, does this mean his family origates from Poland and
Belorus? If a person's name has gorod, does this mean his family
originates from the Ukraine and Russia? Also, is the town Nowogrod
which is north of Warsaw, Poland prounced Novogrod or Novogrud? I am
trying to tie different Novogrodskys to areas based the spelling and
prouncation. Please let me know.
Thanks again,
David Novick
On Sun, 6 Apr 1997, N wrote:
> Hi David
>
> I did not include your original message - it was a bit long. As to your
> question: I speak both Russian and Polish. Both languages are Slavic and
> some words are pronounced almost the same, with small differences. The
> Russian Novgorod means, in old Slavic, a new town. In Polish Novogrudek
> means also a new town. There are a number of towns in Poland, Belorus,
> Ukraine and Russia with these names (the Belorussian and Ukrainian
> pronunciations are similar to the Russian). The largest cities named
> Novgorod are in Russia - THE largest - Nizhni Novgorod (used to be
> Gorki) is about 300 miles east of Moscow. So your family may be from any
> one of these places - many of those towns were in the pale of settlement
> - which encompassed parts of Poland, Belorus and the Ukraine. Nixhni
> Novgorod is NOT in the boundries of the pale, so if your family origins
> are in Russia, you are likely to find your roots there.
>
> Regards
> N.
>
>
>
From nk.rank@usa.net Sat Apr 12 01:11:17 1997
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 14:50:53 -0400
From: N <nk.rank@usa.net>
To: David Novick <dn36@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki
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I think that you will not be able to establish a connection between the
name and the family's origins. People have moved and the names were
adapted to the environment. I know a Novgorodsky who used to be
Novogrudsky - the were deported from Poland to Russia before WW2 and the
name was changed. Also places changed hands and names of towns changed.
I wish you good luck, but am not otimistic.
N.
From bfeldbly@CapAccess.org Sat Apr 12 01:11:53 1997
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:54:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Boris Feldblyum <bfeldbly@CapAccess.org>
To: David Novick <dn36@columbia.edu>
Cc: Boris Feldblyum <bfeldbly@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Novogrudsky, Novogrodsky, or Nowogrodzki
Dear David,
I do not think I can help you to differentiate between all versions of
the name. All of them are legitimate and there have not been one rule
how to translate/transliterate names feom one language to another.
Sincerely,
Boris Feldblyum
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Original Emails Below as Follows:
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:40:26 GMT
Reply-To: Marc <drnovell@emi.net>
Sender: Jewish Genealogy Discussion Group
<JEWISHGEN@MAIL.EWORLD.COM>
From: Marc <drnovell@emi.net>
Organization: The EmiNet Domain (407)731-0222
Subject: Vilna
Comments: To: Multiple recipients of JewishGen <sgjewish@trace.cgsg.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I know this is probably a very basic question, but my father died
quite a while ago, and there is no one left in the family to ask...
Starting to do research on my famil.. I know that my dad came from a
shtetl called Vilna Gabernia (sp?) Was that Russia, Poland, Lithuania?
The family name (before it was changed in the twenties) was
Novogrodsky or Novogodsky. Possibly from the city of Novogrod in
Russia?
Thanks for any help in finding my "roots."
Marc Novell
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REMINDER: JewishGen Family Finder -- <http://www1.jewishgen.org/jgff>
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Email address: drnovell@emi.net
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:37:27 GMT
Reply-To: Nate Gross <nateg@usa.net>
Sender: Jewish Genealogy Discussion Group
<JEWISHGEN@MAIL.EWORLD.COM>
From: Nate Gross <nateg@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Vilna
Comments: To: Multiple recipients of JewishGen <sgjewish@trace.cgsg.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The Vilna Gubernia used to be the vicinity of the city of Vilna in
Lithuania, which itself was a part of the Russian Empire until WWI.
The last name does point to Novgorod in Russia as the origins of one
of your ancestors.
Marc <drnovell@emi.net> wrote:
>I know this is probably a very basic question, but my father died
>quite a while ago, and there is no one left in the family to ask...
>Starting to do research on my famil.. I know that my dad came from a
>shtetl called Vilna Gabernia (sp?) Was that Russia, Poland, Lithuania?
>The family name (before it was changed in the twenties) was
>Novogrodsky or Novogodsky. Possibly from the city of Novogrod in
>Russia?
-=-
REMINDER: JewishGen Family Finder -- <http://www1.jewishgen.org/jgff>
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Email address: nateg@usa.net
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:36:23 -0500
Reply-To: Boris Feldblyum
<Boris.Feldblyum@f302.n109.z1.jewishgen.org>
Sender: Jewish Genealogy Discussion Group
<JEWISHGEN@MAIL.EWORLD.COM>
From: Boris Feldblyum
<Boris.Feldblyum@f302.n109.z1.jewishgen.org>
Subject: Vilna
Comments: To: Multiple recipients of JewishGen <sgjewish@trace.cgsg.com>
>>I know this is probably a very basic question, but my father
died quite a while ago, and there is no one left in the family to
ask... Starting to do research on my famil.. I know that my dad
came from a shtetl called Vilna Gabernia (sp?) Was that Russia,
Poland, Lithuania? The family name (before it was changed in the
twenties) was Novogrodsky or Novogodsky. Possibly from the city
of Novogrod in Russia?
Thanks for any help in finding my "roots."
Marc Novell
Marc,
You have come to the right place but unfortunately, there is no
very basic answer to your "very basic question". To begin with,
"shtetl called Vilna Gabernia" was a size of Maine if not New Jersey.
Guberniya means Province in Russian and your father could have lived
in one of the 500 (or 1500?) big and small towns there. During the
times of your interest it was a part of the Russian Empire.
Novogrosky is a very good lead because the name is indeed from that
area. The town is Novogrudok (Polish - Nowogrodek) it your family
may have originated there, but you are TOO far from that stage in
the research.
As Lauren Davis wrote just yesterday,
>>The best place to start is with Warren Blatt's FAQ (Frequently
Asked Questions)
Send e-mail with no subject or text to:
<faq@jewishgen.org>
or view it directly on the Web at:
<http://www.jewishgen.org/faqinfo.html>.
With regards to your future research of the Vilna Province Jewish
records, you can start counting your blessings now. The amount of
Jewish records and their variety is staggering and one of the largest
when compared with almost any other region of the Tsarist Russia.
Boris Feldblyum *
FAST Genealogy Service *
bfeldbly@CapAccess.org *
http://www.avotaynu.com/fast.html
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